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Uncommonly Sensible

Keeping the "anal" in analytical... (While trying to remain civilized)

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Location: United States

Sunday, March 19, 2006

Freedom of religion?

A TV frame grab, aired on March 22, 2006, shows Abdul Rahman holding a translated version of the Bible in a Kabul court. (Reuters TV/Reuters)

AP: KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man who allegedly converted from Islam to Christianity is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be sentenced to death, a judge said Sunday.

The defendant, Abdul Rahman, was arrested last month after his family went to the police and accused him of becoming a Christian, Judge Ansarullah Mawlavezada told Associated Press in an interview. Such a conversion would violate the country's Islamic laws.

Rahman, who is believed to be 41, was charged with rejecting Islam when his trial started last week, the judge said.

During the hearing, the defendant allegedly confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago when he was 25 and working as a medical aid worker for Afghan refugees in neighboring Pakistan, Mawlavezada said.

Afghanistan's constitution is based on Shariah law, which states that any Muslim who rejects their religion should be sentenced to death.

"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge said. "It is an attack on Islam. ... The prosecutor is asking for the death penalty."

The prosecutor, Abdul Wasi, said the case was the first of its kind in Afghanistan.

He said that he had offered to drop the charges if Rahman changed his religion back to Islam, but the defendant refused.

Mawlavezada said he would rule on the case within two months.

Religion of peace?! Right. The peace of the grave, maybe.

Give me that old time "Love Thy Neighbor" religion instead...any old time.

This sickens me...

UPDATE!!! Bush, Rice Express Concern for Afghani


Blogger Beerme said...

Yeah, that sums it up, doesn't it? My way or the beheading highway.
Tolerance, anyone?

March 19, 2006 5:40 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

Obviously there's nothing corresponding to our First Amendment in their constitution, huh?

Tolerance...no. Pretty sad...

March 19, 2006 5:49 PM  
Blogger onlineanalyst said...

Where are the human rights watch weenies when real abuses take place? Seems to me that Afghanistan's constitution doesn't go for freedom of choice. It's the you choose, you lose school of medievalism.

The Afghanis must have learned how to narc on the family when the Russkies were the big game in town.

March 19, 2006 6:28 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

Some "family values" going on there, eh?

Straight out of the K.G.B. playbook...

March 19, 2006 6:44 PM  
Blogger Barb said...

Or the Spanish Inquisition.Did they use the "rack " to get the confession?
I know there are some religions here in the US that 'shun' any church member who commits certain sins against their rules (not necessarily found in the Bible,)and this includes their family.
Couldn't they just let him leave the country?. Maybe he doesn't want to. I feel when the radical Islamists start creating enough martyrs ,the rational normal people are going to start saying "Enough"

March 19, 2006 7:30 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

The Spanish Inquisition...an excellent example of religious persecution in the extreme.

The difference being, Christianity left that kind of thing behind in the Middle Ages, but Islam is still there...

March 19, 2006 7:51 PM  
Blogger Just call me Shelly said...

And how the kids whined when they had to get up and go to Sunday School, perhaps we should have beheaded them.

March 19, 2006 8:34 PM  
Blogger Bunny said...

Onlineanalyst, the so-called "human rights" organizations are too busy throwing fits about our soldiers photographing war prisoners with women's underwear on their heads and "flushing" Korans down toilets, etc. They can't be bothered with real crimes against humanity, because they can get ever so much more mileage out of the "smoke and mirrors" protests against the EVIL, imperialistic U.S./Bu$hitler regime!

Jack, it sickens me, too. I don't think that it's as simple as a lack of "tolerance" toward different beliefs, although that is a big part of it. Islamofascist leaders fear these Christian converts because of the potential erosion of their power and control.

March 19, 2006 9:17 PM  
Blogger Hawkeye® said...

Makes you wonder why we helped free them from the Taliban, eh? It looks like "Sharia" is the real enemy. Don't be surprised if you find we're fighting a 'New Crusade'.


March 19, 2006 9:59 PM  
Blogger Bob_inSpain said...

It is going to be a long road for these people to move out of the past.

That guy in Turkey got into trouble for "insulting Turkishness" or whatever they call it... last I heard, they did eventually cut the guy some slack, but it is a process to get somewhere positive with all the bigoted old-fashioned hatred and distrust.

I would love it for all these people to see the light of Christ; it would be better for them.

But, I choose not to go bashing all of Islam because some big chunk of them need to "grow up". I mean, Christians did the inquisition and the KKK, neither of which were overly tolerant or enlightened. Even Hitler hid behind the Catholic church for a while, although I gather he eventually dropped them.

That is part of it. I am not sure how Islamic some of these people and countries are, or whether bad people are using the religion to grab power. I am betting that hypocrisy, greed, and lust for power are universal human problems.

It does NOT appear that Islam HAS to be mean and evil - Islam has a mixture of warring and peaceful ideas, just like Old Testament Jews and Christians throughout our history.

People who are tolerant over there probably either run away to places like the USA, if they can, or they just keep their mouth shut and head down, to stay alive and out of trouble.

After all, there is an old African proverb, when elephants fight, the grass is trampled.

It is going to be a long road for these people to move out of the past.

March 20, 2006 12:30 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

Ms. RightWing, Ink:
I guess beheading them would stop their whining, but it's just a wee tad harsh.

'da Bunny:
I've been known to put underwear on my head voluntarily...just for laughs, of course.

But seriously, and this IS serious stuff, I'm hoping that if the world knows about it they'll rethink their policies.

I really liked that discussion you sent me the other day:
Israel, America & Islam
(As you said, a bit long, but worth it)

Undoubtedly part of it is bad people using religion as an excuse for their agenda; this is neither a new concept nor limited to Islam.

And considering the consequences, I'm pretty sure that a lot of people "keep their mouth shut and head down, to stay alive and out of trouble", just as you said...

March 20, 2006 12:45 AM  
Blogger Bob_inSpain said...

keep your head down, your chin tucked tight to your chest...

makes a clean beheading just a little bit harder.

helps to run away, too!!

March 20, 2006 12:59 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

I think, rather than cooperate for a "clean beheading", I'd opt for running away...discretion being the better part of valor, an' all.

March 20, 2006 1:32 AM  
Blogger boberin said...

This points up the potential for problems when we decide people need to be "freed".
You never know (you could know but who has time to think that far ahead?) how they will use that "freedom".
Nation building, expensive, dangerous and rarley comes out as we expect.

March 20, 2006 7:37 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

It also gives the lie to those people who accuse the U.S. of Imperialism, huh? I mean, if it was our "empire", the ACLU would never stand for such things.

FYI, freedom isn't free...

March 20, 2006 7:59 AM  
Blogger boberin said...

No argument there, we sure did free them, this is excellent proof.

Part of the problem being, they don't think like us, not at all. What seems obvious to us is not to them and visa versa.

Oh my

March 20, 2006 8:10 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

A bigger part of the problem is that they're being led by those who use religion to justify murder.

I'd recommend checking out the link Hawkeye® sent me, referenced in a prior comment I made.

Here it is again:
Israel, America & Islam
(It runs 1¼ hours, but you can pause it)

March 20, 2006 8:29 AM  
Blogger JR said...

Shariah laws is mostly just a bunch of male dominated eye for an eye stuff with the loop hole of bribery always being a way out of the situation… All he has to do is bribe them and an exception will be made in his case… He only has to pay for his freedom of religion… The poor always suffer the true extent of the law… Given the true freedom to choose, no one would be Islamic…

A person can only keep four wives at a time… or even better… One cannot keep two real sisters as a wife at one time… If they are your sisters it might cost a little more…

March 20, 2006 11:41 AM  
Blogger Maggie said...

It won't be long before we are heading underground ourselves.We American Christians don't have a clue as to the martyrdom and torture of Christians accross the globe.

March 20, 2006 12:40 PM  
Blogger camojack_senior said...

As maggie said; It won't be long
befre christians will be persecuted
more than they have been in the
past.A good depiction of what lies
ahead can be found in the
"LEFT BEHIND" series. very educational

March 20, 2006 2:14 PM  
Blogger KWL said...

"Religion of Peace"

Yeah Right!!!

Boy am I glad I live in a country where I can say that without fear of my government sending me to my death.

But hey! Where are all the big time Clerics that want us to believe that Islam is the religion of peace? How come they have not denounced this atrocity? What would they say if the tables were turned and a Christian of even a Jew in this country converted to Islam, and we killed them for it. Would they denounce it or would they dance in the streets?

Makes you go hmmmm....

March 20, 2006 3:28 PM  
Blogger benning said...

But, it's what they want. This is one of the reasons - among so many! - that I loathe Islam. But these people have chosen it as the base of their Laws. This is what they've chosen for themselves.

I'm hoping GOD shows that man some mercy! 'Cause Muslims never shall.

March 20, 2006 8:31 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

If that's the case, maybe he just can't afford to pay the "going rate" for his freedom of religion.

Maybe most Americans don't have a clue about the martyrdom and torture of Christians elsewhere...but some of us receive updates from The Voice of the Martyrs
(You can, too)

The Left Behind series is an interesting take on how future events might play out according to prophecy; but they can also be avoided by being among those who aren't "left behind".

Like I said, the peace of the grave, maybe. Somehow those clerics who denounce the barbaric practices of their religion have yet to materialize. Of course, as clerics of Islam, they're the ones who perpetuate the situation.

Is that really what the people over there want, or merely what those in power have forced upon them?

I'm thinking it's the latter...

March 20, 2006 9:33 PM  
Blogger boberin said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

March 21, 2006 10:32 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

There's this radical new concept; it's called diplomacy. Yes, I think that if the President can influence the situation in order to spare the life of an innocent man, he should. Would you just have him executed on principle?!
(Doesn't seem very principled)

March 21, 2006 10:41 AM  
Blogger boberin said...

Diplomacy is fine but it's a fine line. What if they ask us to pardon Moussai (sp?) because, to their eyes, he didn't do that much wrong?

March 21, 2006 11:06 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

Now you equate an innocent man with a person who conspired to commit mass murder?!

March 21, 2006 11:12 AM  
Blogger boberin said...

Not in my mind but perhaps in theirs. My only point is it's funny how stuff gets screwy when you try to predict how people you know little about will react to something.
They don't veiw their captor as innocent, he broke their laws

March 21, 2006 11:37 AM  
Blogger boberin said...


March 21, 2006 11:39 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

Screwy is a good word for them...

March 21, 2006 11:43 AM  
Blogger Bunny said...

boberin, your moral equivocation does more to condemn you than you are apparently capable of comprehending. Sit on the fence, "validating" all sides, denying that there is a right or wrong side to any issue...and know that by harboring such attitudes you, yourself, are denying Jesus Christ. You are not "saved," because if you were, you would understand what camojack, maggie, myself and countless others have TRIED to convey to you you over and over. In trying to "level the playing field" by validating all sides, you actually validate NOTHING. In placing your views on an equal level with Biblical truths, you are appointing yourself "god." "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

camojack, I sent my email to Dubya before posting this.

March 21, 2006 2:01 PM  
Blogger camojack_senior said...

The leaders of Islam are very
open in their belief. If you are a Christan or a Jew, There is no
place for you in this world.
They want you dead.There is no tolerance for any other religion.
They have been referred to by
Condoleeza Rice as a benevolent
religion. I don't know which ones
she was referring to,Certainly not
the leaders.

March 21, 2006 4:16 PM  
Blogger Barb said...

JR said," One cannot keep two real sisters as a wife at one time… If they are your sisters it might cost a little more…"

That sure is a relief , Islam will never make it in the Southern US. I'm kidding.

March 21, 2006 7:56 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

'da Bunny:
I hope we can make a difference; they surely know that the world is watching them.

I think you were right on target when you called those leaders a bunch of snakes. To them, we "Judeo-Christian" types are nothing but infidels, deserving only death.

As for Condi, she's in a position that requires her to be diplomatic.

Yeah, first cousins maybe...but never sisters. They do have standards, after all.
(Sure they do...)

March 21, 2006 8:35 PM  
Blogger boberin said...

I am not trying to "excuse" the actions. However, I am certain that if you had been born and raised the way these folks are that you would be just as certain that you were correct as you now appear to be (good for you, it's gotta feel great to be "right" about everything)
Me? I'm certain that for every person on earth that has more than he or she needs (this includes 99% of all Americans,we do have a sweet deal for certain) that there is a person with just that much less than they need for happiness and in some cases, life itself.
I believe God made, in the beginning, a perfect world, one capable of supporting all inhabitants comfortably. Sin is represented perfectly by the idea tha some folks decided to hoard land/resources/whatever in order to have "too much" or more than the next guy.
It went straight downhill from there and is in no danger of stopping, ever.
I think I have a pretty good grip on things. The fact that I am one of the "haves" that has not done nearly all I could to level the playing field guarantees my spot in Hell. See you there

March 22, 2006 8:34 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

"Leveling the playing field" sounds a lot like Commie/Leftist rhetoric.

God Himself only asks for 10%; Jesus said we would always have the poor with us...poor comes in many varieties, and in this country only belongs to those who insist upon remaining so. I am speaking from personal experience here.

As for seeing anyone in Hell, I refer you to Romans 10:9
"That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

Sound pretty simple? It is...

March 22, 2006 10:41 AM  
Blogger boberin said...

Well, God wanted 10% for the church. Yes the church is supposed to, and often does but not always, help the less fortunate. One question is, how many "God fearing" folks actually give 10%? Where is it used if they do? Did it go to help anyone or did the church just get some new padded pews, new hymnals, a new organ? The list goes on.
Sure, there will always be poor, that didn't stop Christ from trying to help them, shouldn't stop us. Some phrase about a rich man and his inherent inability to get into Heaven comes to mind. What, exactly does that refer to

As for believing there is supposed to be some sort of "repentance" for the sins for "forgiveness" to really take. How many "confess" to sins just to repeat them again and again?

It's all good

March 22, 2006 11:33 AM  
Blogger Bunny said...

Well, since you have all the "answers" to world poverty, bob, why don't you set the "example" for rest of us and give up all your possessions, doling them out to those you deem worthy. Do you make more money than any of your co-workers? If so, why not "level" that playing field and ask for your salary to be reduced to equal that of the lowest paid person in the company? I'm sure there's a homeless person somewhere near you that "deserves" your house more than you do.

You're just a cynical hypocrite who enjoys playing the "martyr." You are the one who's believes he's "always right," in spite of a constant barrage of wisdom, logic and rational thought being provided to you by several highly intelligent, Christian people, both here and on SF. Continue denying the "truth" of Jesus Christ all you wish, you won't be "seeing" me anywhere you plan to go!

March 22, 2006 12:19 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

How much a person gives is between them and God, basically...but as it is written in 2 Corinthians 9:7 - "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

Anyway, my church gives 10% of their receipts to "benevolence". Actually, a couple of the most efficient charitable organizations going are Catholic Charities and Lutheran World Relief, when measured by the percentage of the money that actually goes to the causes they benefit.

Of course it costs a certain amount of money to run a church: staff salaries, mortgage, utilities, etc. That's a basic reality.

'da Bunny:
Bob doesn't have all the answers. Maybe that's why he seeks wisdom elsewhere.

Not a bad idea, really; I do that, too...

March 22, 2006 9:58 PM  
Blogger Just call me Shelly said...

Now that I got here I can't remember what I wanted to say.

I just finished another viewing of The Hiding Place. My Bible study has been ready for the Beatitude (Matthew 5:10)Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake.....

It has taken several showings in order to get everyone to see the movie and after numerous times watching it both over the years and lately my heart still is ripped.

There are many who have testimonies, but thankfully she is one who got it on film.

I'm afraid the next large war there will be no testimonies on earth, only in heaven

March 25, 2006 10:55 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

Ms. RightWing, Ink:
I would say that Abdul Rahman is definitely being persecuted for righteousness' sake. I hope his life will be spared...

March 25, 2006 11:56 PM  
Blogger Barb said...

If poor dumb George Bush had only been smart enough to ask boberin,he would have realized that those people just aren't smart enough, or civilized enough, or good enough to handle democracy. They are like black folks used to be ,they don't feel pain if you hit them,they are too dumb to vote, well, face it they just make darn good slaves.
Of course you have been saying all along we should just Nuke the whole world Muslim population. And God would say What?
Oh ,and boberin ,when God made the world ,there were only two people.So who is your pick ,Bill and Hill ? The rest of the people in the world should just crawl into their caskets and wait to die?Will you please tell me where in the Bible it says that? God just made enough 'stuff' for a certain number of people and if I get more ,someone else gets less?So if I work hard and you sit on your duff,I have to give you half of everything I make?
Is it possible you don't know how stupid and ignorant you sound?

March 26, 2006 2:13 PM  

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