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Uncommonly Sensible

Keeping the "anal" in analytical... (While trying to remain civilized)

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Sunday, April 24, 2005

The Devil's in the details...

AP - In 2000, while serving as the Vatican's chief overseer for doctrine, he issued "Dominus Iesus," a document that upset non-Catholics by framing salvation from only a Catholic perspective. But Wednesday — a day after his election as pope — Benedict promised to seek greater ties with all Christians and open "sincere dialogue" with other faiths.

This can only be a good thing. For literally centuries, the Catholic Church has held Protestant churches in low regard, as apostate and heretical. Yet, the core values of most Protestant denominations are identical to those of the Catholic Church. It's really only on the minor details that there's been a conflict, but of course, that's what a lot of people get hung up on.

As in other aspects of life, the world, etc., when the focus is on differences it leads to strife, hatred, misunderstanding...even war. If the focus is on commonalities, then there can be cooperation and unity.

Much like in the political arena; the emphasis is on differences, mostly of opinion, and there's a saying about opinions.

I wish the new Pope, Benedict XVI, all the best of luck. Perhaps with a bit of effort, all around, a new Reformation can be completed. Truly a "win-win" situation...


Blogger Kajun said...

I agree with you.

Core values: We are Christians. We believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God!

Some of us walk to church, some of us catch a ride, some of us drive new automobiles, some old. We're all going to church to worship and to have fellowship with other Christians.

April 24, 2005 4:45 AM  
Blogger Beerme said...

While I agree with your point of view, I feel it is going to be an uphill battle for this Pope. The MSM has already branded him a hard-line conservative, Nazi, Hitler Jungen, etc. These were some of the "jokes" being rattled off by Bill Maher last night. In Europe, I am sure he is even more denigrated.

Now, bear in mind that most of the people doing the negative take on the Pope are secular. I'm not sure that is true in Europe, though. In any event, perhaps the Christians of the world will be more accepting than the MSM!

We all have much more in common than not. I often wonder why it's so difficult to see that overwhelming commonality. Then, I watch the Bill Maher show and I see exactly why...

April 24, 2005 5:55 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

You forgot those of us (like me) who ride a Harley to church. ☺
(As I'm about to do shortly...)

I am encouraged by the growing numbers of people who do not rely on the "mainstream" media for their news, although even Internet sources like "Yahoo!", etc., seem to have a leftward bias. That could be because they get their news from those selfsame "mainstream" media outlets, but most people seem to be aware of the bias nowadays...and that can only be a good thing, too.

April 24, 2005 10:34 AM  
Blogger jeanne said...

Catholic, evangelical, and jew bashing is common and quite in vogue. The "progressives" can sit back and laugh while people of faith pick at each other. If you buy into it you're part of it. They're counting on "divide and conquer". We have to look at what we have in common-and it's a lot!

April 24, 2005 10:36 AM  
Blogger Hawkeye® said...

With all those Islamofascists out there wanting to kill Jews and Christians, it is probably a good idea for people of all faiths (Islam included) to at least agree to respect one another's beliefs. If possible, they should figure out a way to make a joint statement that all people of "good" faith oppose violence. We should not be fighting one another, we should be declaring the merchants of violence as "evil" and "lawless" and "outcasts", etc. etc.

April 24, 2005 12:07 PM  
Blogger Kajun said...

If all the Christians, Jews, and, yes...Muslims, were to present a unified front to the secular media, the religion bashing would probably end overnight.

April 24, 2005 2:10 PM  
Blogger Kajun said...


I didn't forget about the "hawg" drivers, in fact I thought about including them, but thought it might be a little chilly there this morning. It was 39 here this morning (70, now though). He,he.

April 24, 2005 2:19 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

Ah, yes...if only. So much hatred and violence have already been, and continue to be blamed on "religious" differences.

Some people just seem to love to use that as an excuse for what they do...

A united front would be helpful in dealing with the media, but I doubt it'll ever happen with all religious groups. We can always dream though, huh?

BTW, it was 44º when I rolled out this morning; a bit brisk, but nothing I can't handle with a full fairing and windshield. When it gets colder than that, I can turn on my heated handgrips...but I won't ride at 32º or below, in case there's ice on the roads.

April 24, 2005 2:33 PM  
Blogger mig said...

Christians know that our law comes from the top down. That's the beauty of it. Not from the bottom up which is something that seculars and MSM won't be able to grasp. It is out of their realm of influence.

April 24, 2005 9:42 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

Well said...

April 24, 2005 9:53 PM  
Blogger RAM said...

mig: Absolute brilliant statement!

April 25, 2005 2:44 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

Mack e-mailed me, saying he was having trouble signing on; he asked me to post the following on his behalf:
"In the Old Testament we read of the watcher on the wall who failed to sound the alarm when the enemy approached in the night. When the city was plundered the blood of the people was on the hands of the watcher. Whereas if the watchman had sounded the alarm, and the people failed to respond, their blood would be on themselves. The church is the watchman sounding the alarm, much as John The Baptist crying out in the wilderness "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand."
Yet the liberals don't like the message, and want the church to change it, so they can feel good about themselves. Yet the church can not change it, because it is the truth, and we know it. We don't want their blood on our hands when they are judged.
As when God sent the angels to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, the people there were not interested in the word, they sought pleasure and debauchery. As it was then, it is now. Yet God has not changed. If anything, it is as Jesus said, worst for the people who reject the word now than it was for Sodom and Gommorah. We have the Savior now, we have God's commandments and they had neither. We have no excuse; they had no warning.
Take heed, and be thankful that the church refuses to yield to the liberals' carnal desires."

April 25, 2005 8:43 AM  
Blogger 'da Bunny said...

Hey, camo, I finally got in! I enjoy reading your blog, and I, too, wish Pope Benedict the best. Like your wife, my husband is a former Catholic. He now attends a fundamentalist Christian church with me where the focus is on having a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, and not so much on the rituals or the "religion."

April 25, 2005 4:55 PM  
Blogger Pat'sRick© said...

A wonderful book by C.S. Lewis outlines the basics of Mere Christianity. Kenneth Copeland and Keith Moore had a segment where they discussed denominations, which I also agreed with. They likened it to being in the house building business. Some were carpenters, some electricians, some plumbers, some masonry workers, some decorators, etc. All were necessary to build the house, but plumbers would tend to hang out with plumbers, electricians with electricians, etc.
A plumber might be uncomfortable in a church where the calling was to be electricians, and vice versa. While the body of Christ has a general call, the particular local churches have more specific callings. Makes sense to me.

April 25, 2005 6:38 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

'da bunny:
Welcome. It is unfortunate that a lot of people are former Catholics, as many of them don't attend any church now.

The Catholic church has addressed a lot of issues since the original Reformation, many of them in my lifetime, in fact.

I truly do hope this new Pope can help halt the decline of the church, by reaching out to fellow Christians, worldwide...

I agree, and often cite C.S. Lewis, if only by referring to myself as "merely Christian", as opposed to emphasizing a particular denomination.

The analogy you mention sort of parallels the one in the New Testament; specifically in Paul's first letter to the people of Corinth:
1 Corinthians 12:4-31 (New International Version)
There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body–whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don't need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don't need you!” On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts...

April 25, 2005 6:54 PM  
Blogger 'da Bunny said...

camo, I, too, hope that the decline of the Catholic church can be halted worldwide. I have heard that the mosques are filling up in Europe while church attendance is waning. I am all for religious freedom, but the anti-Christian/anti-Jew sentiment among both Muslims and secularists leads me to strongly suspect that the "end times" may be near. While I welcome the return of Christ at any time, there are some members of my immediate family who have not accepted and been baptized into Him, yet, and whose salvation I often pray for.

April 25, 2005 11:02 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

AP - VATICAN CITY - Pope Benedict XVI formally began his papacy by extending a hand to Jews, other Christians and "non-believers," and by signaling that he wants to be a good listener in the "enormous task" of leading the world's 1.1 billion Roman Catholics.

I am encouraged by this new Pope, and his policy of unification; I hope things can improve significantly amongst the faithful...of every denomination.

Perhaps with better relationships all around, people will be able to concentrate on similarities, instead of differences...

April 26, 2005 12:21 AM  
Blogger Roger Dodger said...

hee hee

Youre so funny when you get mad. Where's mack?

April 26, 2005 1:20 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

I'm not mad. I am serious, though. And if you don't want to add to the discussion, just detract from it, you'll be deleted. You be nice, I'll do likewise...life is like that.

April 26, 2005 1:36 AM  
Blogger SGT USMC 1ea said...

camojack said...

I'm not mad. I am serious, though. And if you don't want to add to the discussion, just detract from it, you'll be deleted. You be nice, I'll do likewise...life is like that.

Camnojack. You sound so parental. This is my house and as long as your under my roof you'll.....
As a parent I like it. Looks like Scott had to shut down for a while to clean house. Scott has like a millyun chillun's though. Can't blame him for wiping that whole last thread.

As a child (4th Grade) my teacher read us the "Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. by C.S. Lewis. She must have been one of those closet Christians. I had no Idea about the religious symbolism at the time. I thought it was just terrible when they bound and killed Aslan the lion on the altar. When he rose again and conquered all it was just magic to me. Allegorically it still is. Praise Jesus.

Jesu es Semper Fidelis

April 26, 2005 10:38 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

SGT USMC 1ea :
I suggested to Scott that he require people to register before they can post comments. Obviously, that won't eliminate "obscene interlopers", but it will make them easier to manage.

C.S. Lewis is "da bomb"; highly recommended. That 4th Grade teacher of yours sounds like one sharp cookie.

Praise Him indeed...for He is great, and greatly to be praised.

April 26, 2005 6:59 PM  
Blogger 'da Bunny said...

Re: C.S. Lewis, there is a book of inspirational quotes called "Patches of Godlight" by Jan Karon. Someone recently gave this book to me as a gift, and it is wonderful. It contains many quotes and writings by C. S. Lewis, among others, and the wisdom contained therein is truly profound. I highly recommend it.

April 26, 2005 10:15 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

'da Bunny:
I liked Lewis' "The Screwtape Letters", too...

April 26, 2005 11:31 PM  
Blogger Hawkeye® said...

So I guess this is where the Scrapplers are hanging out these days.... Where's Ms RightWing?

April 27, 2005 1:10 PM  
Blogger 'da Bunny said...

camo, I need to read more of Lewis' work. Our pastor uses it a lot in his sermons.

Hi Hawkeye. Yeah, we've had to go somewhere for our "blogging fixes".

April 27, 2005 4:39 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

Ms RightWing dropped by on the previous thread...she was the FIRST! to do so, in fact.

'da Bunny:
Did you know that C.S. Lewis died the same day John F. Kennedy was shot? Consequently, that little detail kind of got lost in the media "blitz" surrounding the assassination.

Here's a good site about Mr. Lewis.

April 27, 2005 6:56 PM  
Blogger 'da Bunny said...

I checked out the C. S. Lewis site you linked, camo. Really enjoyed it. Thanks.

April 28, 2005 5:14 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

'da Bunny:
You're quite welcome.

C. S. Lewis was a truly gifted individual...

April 28, 2005 10:10 PM  
Blogger Gerald Augustinus said...

It seems that nowadays cultural lines are more important than denominational lines, at least on non-theological issues - I have more in common with many evangelicals than with "progressive" Catholics (the few, the prideful).
Of course, theologically there exists a big difference, however that doesn't factor into eg. concerted pro-life efforts As far as "Dominus Jesus" is concerned - the Catholic Church holds the position that she is the privileged instrument of salvation but that also people of other faiths or none can be saved. Then-Cardinal Ratzinger merely stated that non-Catholic churches are to be considered daughter as opposed to sister churches. Protestants are referred to as "our separated brothers and sisters". Not surprisingly he also asserted the primacy of the Catholic Church - I mean, he is Catholic after all ;) As a Catholic I agree with that. But, viewing my Church as possessing the fullness of truth does not make me think other churches have no truth at all. It'd be illogical, too given the many commonalities between the Church and many Protestant denominations.

PS click my name to see my new blog :O)

April 29, 2005 12:50 AM  
Blogger Gerald Augustinus said...

or click this :

Dominus vobiscum ;o)

April 29, 2005 12:53 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

Gerald Augustinus:
Well, my Christian brother, you have opened a "can of worms".

Or, perhaps, a Diet of Worms.
(Recommended reading, that)

Anyway, since religion has been described at times, by certain "Parties", as the "opiate of the masses"...I shall draw a related analogy. I'd rather avoid "name brand" labels, (ie: Catholic, Protestant, etc.) preferring the generic term "Christian" instead. You usually have to pay more for a name brand drug, for example, but the generic type is often just as effective.

As I stated in a prior comment, I like to call myself merely Christian, which is a more inclusive term...encompassing all believers in Christ.

I'll cite two New Testament passages, and end for now:

John 3:16 and Romans 10:9

They pretty much sum it up for me...
(No mention of "brand names" either)

April 29, 2005 8:29 AM  
Blogger hooey said...

Many conservatives have offered their opinionthat I am a «poseur», «satire», a «faux lib», or a «Liberal Larry spinoff». Nohing could be further from the truth. I am a true progressive thinking individual, or a «liberal» if you will. I began posting on Scrapple Face lasy September to try and pursuade the conservatives there to change their vote and support Sen. Kerry. I continued posting after the theft of the 2004 election to educate the stain glass right wingers about the pogressive movement. This year I found the «Blame Bush» site, and at first thought it was a progressive site. I sooon found that it was satire; I then began posting ther for the same reason that I was posting @ Scrapple Fave - to educate. IN the mean time I was banned from Scrapple Face. While reading Blame Bush one day, I found that someone had posted «is this our Howie?», with a link to Dean04prez's site. I found that too was satire.I am not Deen. However, Dean recommended I start my own blog, which I did, for the purpose of education.

April 29, 2005 3:00 PM  
Blogger SGT USMC 1ea said...

I am not "many conservatives" I am just one. I still think you are a misunderstood genius. Please keep posting. The folks over at Instapundit need educating too.

To change the format of the time date stamps for comments go to the upper left corner of your blog and click the blogger symbol. Sign in then go to the little cog symbol for change settings. Click the formatting tab there and it gives you several things you can modify. I find it helpful to be able to tell at a glance what day a post was made.

Jesu es Semper Fideles

April 29, 2005 4:54 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

howie said...
Many conservatives have offered their opinionthat I am a «poseur», «satire», a «faux lib», or a «Liberal Larry spinoff». Nohing could be further from the truth.

Well, kiddo, if you're not...then you ought to be.

SGT USMC 1ea said...
To change the format of the time date stamps for comments go to the upper left corner of your blog and click the blogger symbol...

Thanks for the suggestion; been there, done that.

Ain't howie a hoot? But we love him, either way.

April 29, 2005 5:20 PM  
Blogger Pat'sRick© said...

Finally posted a new item on my blog.

April 29, 2005 7:37 PM  

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