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Uncommonly Sensible

Keeping the "anal" in analytical... (While trying to remain civilized)

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Friday, July 08, 2005

It's my Party, and I'll cry if I want to...Part I


AP, WASHINGTON - Organized labor should help politicians who will advance labor's cause rather than simply supporting Democrats, says a union leader pushing for changes in the AFL-CIO.

As a card-carrying member of a number of unions, I have to say it's long past time for them to quit blindly following the Democrat agenda.

Once upon a time, about 40 years ago, the Democrats were for the working class, minorities, women, etc. That was then.

Nowadays, they've been co-opted by a radical left wing agenda that J.F.K. (Kennedy, not Kerry) would scarcely recognize. Not that I idolize him or anything; I'm just citing an example.

Part of the reason the Democrat dogma has become so left of center is because the Republicans have been gravitating away from the rightmost extreme, so in order to be different from them, the Democrats have had to shift their focus as well.

A strong two Party system helps keep things balanced, but as the Democrats continue to lose ground, things have gotten a bit unbalanced. This is not a good thing either, since as the old axiom goes, power corrupts...and absolute power corrupts, absolutely. We're not at that point, yet, but it's also said that the road to HELL is paved with good intentions.

If the Democrats can't get their act together, perhaps it's time for another opposition Party to step in.

Libertarian, anyone?

50 Comments:

Blogger SGT USMC 1ea said...

First

July 09, 2005 1:25 AM  
Blogger SGT USMC 1ea said...

Sorry Camojack I know how you hate that.

July 09, 2005 1:26 AM  
Blogger SGT USMC 1ea said...

Amazingly enough I just posted about union dues over at scrappleface.
You might be a pig and/or a liberal if: You pay union dues and donate to the DNC not realizing the money goes to the same thing.

I think the real answer to the problem is to bring the Republicans further right to give the left some maneuvering room.

Deus est Semper Fidelis

July 09, 2005 1:30 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

SGT USMC 1ea said:
First
July 09, 2005 1:25 AM


Then:

Sorry Camojack I know how you hate that.
July 09, 2005 1:26 AM


I don't really hate it, I just find it pointless. Doesn't matter.

The third post is what does:
You might be a pig and/or a liberal if: You pay union dues and donate to the DNC not realizing the money goes to the same thing.

I think the real answer to the problem is to bring the Republicans further right to give the left some maneuvering room.

I had no choice in the matter of joining a union, if I wanted to work where I do, in my line of work. I realize some of my union dues go to the DNC, and I'm none too happy about that, but it's not my decision to make.

As for the Republicans moving back to the right, I don't have a problem with that, at least in regard to such things as more States' rights, less big government, taxes, etc. But like the story of Pandora's Box, once it's opened you're stuck with all the bad things that were once contained within...

July 09, 2005 1:46 AM  
Blogger Kajun said...

Libertarian--without the smoke...

July 09, 2005 1:48 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

Kajun News:
I think that the people who lived in my house before I bought it were Libertarians, because sometimes mail still comes here for them from the Libertarian Party...I don't know whether they were with or without the smoke, though.

July 09, 2005 1:55 AM  
Blogger SGT USMC 1ea said...

Please delete my first 2 pointless posts.

Not blaming you for earning a living. Many a Republican is thus forced to fund the DNC but the libs actually give extra.

I doubt that we will go back too far right. Comfort and Safety cause a population to drift further left. Consequences and hazards occasionally bring them back to reality and swing them swiftly back to the right.

Jesu est Semper Fidelis

July 09, 2005 2:06 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

SGT USMC 1ea:
Like I said, it doesn't matter. Not as though they wasted a lot of bandwidth or anything, for which I'm not paying anyhow. Besides, then my first post wouldn't entirely make sense.
(I do try to be Uncommonly Sensible)

Anyway, I sincerely hope this idea of NOT blindly following a particular political party catches on with the unions.

I agree that it's doubtful we'll go too far back to the right. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to go much farther to the left, either. Socialism is a fine theory, but it would only work perfectly if people were perfect...

July 09, 2005 2:23 AM  
Blogger 'da Bunny said...

Alright, Jack...you had me up until the "socialism is a fine theory" bit. No, it's not. Socialism creates an "entitlement" mentality, gives people a false sense of "security," and causes them to abdicate "personal responsibility." It drives up taxes, healthcare costs, long-term care costs, and it causes people to view government as their "god."
"Income re-distribution" and "leveling the playing field" do nothing but destroy things like ambition, drive, responsibility, etc. I could go on and on...but this isn't the place for me to "write my book."
>:-}

July 09, 2005 7:09 AM  
Blogger 'da Bunny said...

Forgot to mention that the "theory" of socialism is just a way to control the citizenry. The same gov't that "doles it out" is the same gov't that can take it away!!!

July 09, 2005 7:11 AM  
Blogger RAM said...

I know as much, if not more than anyone here, having been a local chairman and then president of my union. I was looked down on by my peers when they found out my "right" leanings and was chastised for not contributing to the political action fund which ONLY gave support to Dems or "closet Dems", (R.I.N.O.'s)

I certainly don't miss the job one bit.

Incidently, they also pull little (?) tricks on election day by sending out rosters to union officials, complete with party affiliation, and tell you to only go to Dem house's to urge them to go vote and even offer a ride to the polls.

All this at ALL union members expense. Believe me, things like this are only the tip of the iceberg!

Off topic but, if you want to see the far-left lunatic fringe in our Country, go to: http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050709/OPINION01/507090377/1031

I sent this to Camo, it is from today's Indy Star. The only thing more rediculous than this guy's opinion of why we (America), haven't been attacked since 9/11, is the fact the Star chose to print it!

July 09, 2005 8:01 AM  
Blogger mig said...

I was once a union member.. I think we have discussed this before. Seafarers International Union... And it was such a joke. I wasn't conservative then by any means but I sure disliked having to pay to the 'political action committee'. If you don't pay, the jobs 'dry-up' and your on the bottom of the list, the black list.

July 09, 2005 8:28 AM  
Blogger rusty said...

Hi Jack,

An acquaintance, who is a professor of political science at my local college and who's actually a liberal Democrat [guess what spin he teaches,] in order to get away from the Democrat stigma calls himself a Progressive - that's a political party in my State.

July 09, 2005 9:33 AM  
Blogger MargeinMI said...

IMHO, the Dems have lost a huge chunk of the union vote (esp. 2004), possibly a combination of not identifying with Kerry (billionaire playboy), WOT/military pride, web usage increase, etc. I hope it's a trend that continues. They have outlived their purpose and priced themselves and/or the products they produce right out of the marketplace. Socialists indeed.

July 09, 2005 9:35 AM  
Blogger David said...

1. Indeed, there are 2 principled Parties - the Libertarians and the Constitution Party. Both will have no problem in deciding who to nominate for the Supreme Court - a strict constructionist in the mold of Scalia and Thomas. Hmm....hold on, did I hear someone else say that during 2000 and 2004? Naaah...must have been an echo.

2. The current system is corrupt and inherently biased, hostile and prejudicial to smaller parties. Who knows, maybe with the blogosphere, these 2 parties may get more attention, respect and visibility.

3. In fact, the Libertarians, had an impact on several state elections, where the results were close. For exampl,e If I recall, it would be in Washington where Rep. Gub. candidate Rossi would have won, had all Libertarians voted for him.

4. Thanks for posting funny comments on my site. God bless.

July 09, 2005 10:24 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

'da Bunny?
Read it again, kiddo...I said "socialism is a fine theory, but it would only work perfectly if people were perfect."

We're not. So it doesn't. In true Socialism, everyone would be truly equal; it can't work that way in practice.

RAM:
As a former union president, you would indeed have excellent insight into the situation.

Regarding the Indy Star...it's "mainstream" media. Need I say more?

mig:
I will say that some unions are better than others; I'm in SAG and the UAW to name a couple, and they both do rather well by their members. Once upon a time, a long time ago, I was in a union when I worked at a restaurant when I went to college. The few cents an hour extra we got by being in the union went to dues, plus the restaurant then put limits on the items we could have for our "free" lunch. Such a deal... Not!

rusty:
Hmmm, let's see. "An acquaintance, who is a professor of political science...and who's actually a liberal Democrat". I'll take an "educated" guess: He's indoctrinating Democrats? (Or trying to, at any rate) Typical.

Welcome to my blog! Thanks for stopping by, and do so as often as you like. :-)

MargeinMI:
Agreed. The Democrats have lost a substantial portion of the union vote. People are becoming more aware of the reality of the matter, largely due to "da 'Net", and by extension...the "blogosphere". That's US! Pretty cool, huh?

David:
1. Did you mean there are 2 principled alternative Parties?

2. I believe that, thanks to the blogosphere, awareness of many things will continue to increase/improve.

3. Alternate parties do have an impact; it's not always a positive one, but they have one nevertheless. It's one big reason why Clinton got into office. Think Ross Perot and all the votes he got. Most of them would probably have gone to Bush, Sr.

4. Back atcha!

July 09, 2005 11:12 AM  
Blogger hooey said...

I feel the Democrats should keep to their progressive ways. They are a vanguard for progressive change. I also feel its time America wemt with a parlimentary form of govermnent, then the power would'nt be in the hands of one man like Shrub.

July 09, 2005 2:19 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

howie:
I agree with you that the Democrats should "stay the course"...because they're destined to fail. As for progressive, they've gotten progressively worse.

I'm still waiting to hear what you think of my proposal to get together and discuss your views, and you really should get a different picture, as the one you are using does nothing positive for your minimal credibility...

July 09, 2005 2:25 PM  
Blogger Hawkeye® said...

camo,
Facial tissues are on sale at a store near you. No coupons required. I fear you'll be crying for awhile.

July 09, 2005 3:01 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

Hawkeye®:
I'm not crying, mon amí; it's just a line from a song that I shamelessly used for the post, because I thought it was applicable. Don't take me so literally, OK? Hee hee...

July 09, 2005 3:10 PM  
Blogger Kajun said...

david said "...For exampl,e If I recall, it would be in Washington where Rep. Gub. candidate Rossi would have won, had all Libertarians voted for him."

Rossi would also have won if the Democrats had stopped filling out and counting absentee ballots after the polls closed.

July 09, 2005 4:11 PM  
Blogger 'da Bunny said...

Jack, I know that you qualified your "fine theory" statement with the "it would work if people were perfect, but they aren't" part. Which is why I then added the part about it being a way to "control" the citizenry, which makes it not a fine theory because it's just another way to "fool all of the people all of the time." All are created equal by God, but He didn't create us all to BE equal, or to have an equal amount of talents, gifts, possessions, etc. If God had been of a "socialist" mindset, then we'd all be concert pianists, rocket scientists, Olympic gymnasts, and no one would be sick or doing without. That's the reason socialism isn't a good "theory" IMHO, because God Himself has made sure that it cannot work. Perhaps, my dear friend, we can just agree to disagree in this instance?

July 09, 2005 5:11 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

'da Bunny:
I see no need to "agree to disagree", because we're already in agreement.

Socialism doesn't work in practice, where "the rubber meets the road" as 'twere, which is the only place that really matters.

July 09, 2005 5:42 PM  
Blogger The trotting Possum said...

After all I've been through this afternoon, setting up a blog and all, can I finally mutter what I was trying to say last night?

It's a shame the Fabian socialists--no relation to Annette Funicello and the beach movies--have appropriated the turtle as their symbol. Maybe the Libertarians can use a possum to indicate a critter that's slow and deliberate, but gets there.

Every election, we capture another office or two. Our major setbacks are (a) we tend to think for ourselves, and that means a level of discomfort with any political party, and (b) the "l-i-b" at the beginning throws the ADD crowd into thinking that our name is synonymous with "Liberal."

About the time the Obstructionist/Sore Loser Party self-destructs, we might be able to step up to the plate. With any luck, we'll nudge the GOP back over to its founding principles, which have become obscured in recent years.

Hawkeye's very generously linked to my blog, which I'm still figuring out. There may be some cute UPI visual stuff there when I get hip to posting photos. Right now, there's a single rave about the Brits, and the usual start-up disclaimer. Oh, and a personal photograph. Thanks, Hawkeye!

Is this going to post?

July 09, 2005 7:46 PM  
Blogger truth_is_freedom said...

"All are created equal by God, but He didn't create us all to BE equal"

Could someone explain this to me please? I do not understand what the statement means in practice.

July 09, 2005 7:47 PM  
Blogger The trotting Possum said...

All right! Too cool!

Someone has appropriated my handle for ol' uncle Possum. "General Wombat" was the Robert Conrad character in a forgotten classic film called "Wrong is Right." It starred Sean Connery as a reporter, featured homicide bombers diving onto politicians as comic relief, and ended with an ADM hanging on a flagpole atop the World Trade Center. Chicken-and-egg: does life imittate art?

July 09, 2005 7:50 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

General_Wombat:
Mutter away, my friend. An articulate individual's muttering trumps a cretin's attempts at discourse any old day.

From my original post, you can probably discern my sentiment that the Libertarian Party is preferable to the Democrats...

truth_is_freedom:
The way I interpreted the statement was that we are all equal in God's eyes, but not equal in all things.

But I'll let the person who originally posted it tell you what they meant, if they're so inclined...

July 09, 2005 8:27 PM  
Blogger 'da Bunny said...

camojack, your response to "truth_is_freedom" re: my post is absolutely what I meant, and I, obviously, couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks!
>:-}

July 09, 2005 9:01 PM  
Blogger The trotting Possum said...

Another argument with the girlfriend, one that interrupts "Quigley Down Under", possibly the greatest sniper movie ever made. In the movie is the immortal line about "God created all men, and Sam Colt made them all equal, more or less."

We are all afforded an opportunity to fail, personally or professionally. Perhaps that, more than anything else, makes us equal. We are given free reign over our lives and decisions, and the thought process is part of God's gift.

The Libertarian party has always been a loose amalgamation of people who think. Thinking is a curse; it makes for more alcoholism, broken marriages, and general unhappiness than any other signle thing I can name. Life is irony; the flip side of the coin is that thinking rationally is the unique gift of The Creator, that sets us aside from what The Bible describes as those who "creep upon the earth and grasp at the sun."

Unfortunately, this makes for disparate political bedfellows. I spend half my time urging people not to read Atlas Shrugged, which explains their sense of vague unease better than anything I can articulate. Then, I turn around and give away copies of that same book, with the caveat that the reader should not be put off by Rand's professions of atheism.

I can't quote a lot of Scripture off the top of my head, but the last part of Ecclesiates, Chapter I, is an exception:

"And I gave my life to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly...

"And I perceived that this, too, is vexation. For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow."

The author of those words is unclear, but the meaning is certain.

July 09, 2005 10:16 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

'da Bunny:
I was just using my Uncommon Sensibility, but I'm happy to know that I got it right. No thanks necessary...

General_Wombat:
"Quigley Down Under"? Great flick, and an excellent line therefrom. There were a lot of good one-liners in that movie as I recall...and now you've made me want to watch it again. Fortunately, I've got it, recorded on that outmoded medium: VHS.
(Tom Selleck is a rarity in "Hollyweird" these days, too, with his political leanings)

Regarding the quote from Ecclesiastes; it's sort of the flip side of the old maxim about ignorance being bliss, but I'll take awareness every time, thank you very much.

Here's another one for you:
1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

July 09, 2005 10:35 PM  
Blogger Kajun said...

In the 1 Corinthians 13:11 quote, one could insert the word democrat instead of the word child and the word Republican for the word man; ala Ronald Reagan.

Would that some Republicans would put away their democrat ways.

July 10, 2005 2:41 AM  
Blogger David said...

Camojack: I agree - there are 2 principled alternative Parties

Kajunnews: (1) I agree - Democrats cheated.

(2) My point is that if Bush appoints Alberto Gonzales, aka Spanish Souter, many conservatives will be demoralized, and some of those will go to the Libertarians or the Constitution Party.

July 10, 2005 10:32 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

Kajun News:
I remember Reagan was fond of saying that he didn't leave the Democrat Party...they left him.

It somewhat relates to a quote by Winston Churchill:
"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."

David:
I figured that's what you meant, but thanks for verifying it...

July 10, 2005 11:42 AM  
Blogger truth_is_freedom said...

"All are created equal by God, but He didn't create us all to BE equal, or to have an equal amount of talents, gifts, possessions, etc" was the original quote.

If God 'created all equal', why did he not give an equal number or amount of talent(s) to all?

Why are some highly intelligent and some really dumb?

Why are some gifted in music or the arts, and some apparently talentless?

Is that a level playing field? -- as "all are created equal by God" would suggest?

July 10, 2005 11:49 AM  
Blogger hooey said...

Jacques avec le Camouflage. Why not come out to the Drinking Liberrally event @ The Annex in Princeton this September.

July 10, 2005 12:21 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

truth_is_freedom:
As I said, all are equal in God's eyes. That does not mean we have equal capacities in all things, nor is there a "level playing field" in the world. That's reality, whether you choose to accept it or not.

Ponder this, regarding spiritual gifts:
1 Corinthians 12
1 Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

12 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

14 Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
And now I will show you the most excellent way.


Still with me? In other words, we have different abilities, so as to do different work...

July 10, 2005 12:25 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

howie:
Merci, mais moi travaillons le jeudi nuits...
(Thanks, but I work on Thursday nights)

Fridays or Saturdays would be best, Princeton is over 50 miles from where I live, in the King of Prussia/Gulph Mills area.
(My house is in between those places)

July 10, 2005 12:32 PM  
Blogger RAM said...

Sorry about the link I provided earlier. I have since found out this guy was being sarcastic, in his best "Scott Ott" impersonation!

One other comment about unions. Unions were a great thing BEFORE the "me" generation that we now live in.

For "unions" to work, they have to have the support of ALL to stand together, and it is just not there anymore, (See United Nations)

My old union has found out that the international simply put, is all bark and no bite. It just doesn't have teeth anymore.

Once upon a time, people were ashamed to be called "scabs" for crossing picket lines, but then MOST people used to be ashamed of a LOT of things like taking help from the government when they really don't need it, all the way to killing babies!

OK, rant over. ;-)

July 11, 2005 7:36 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

RAM:
No big deal about the link; it was readily misinterpreted as serious.

As to the topic of unions, they seem to mostly concentrate on saving the jobs of druggies and drunks, but there are also more legitimate reasons to have them...although as you say (and I paraphrase), they ain't what they used to be.

July 11, 2005 7:46 AM  
Blogger Hawkeye® said...

truth_is_freedom,
I'll throw in my 2 cents...

God loves each of us as a unique individual, and as a child. Though our own children might be very different from one another, we love each of them equally, at least most of us do (of course there's no accounting for the psychotic child murderers).

July 13, 2005 9:18 PM  
Blogger truth_is_freedom said...

"In other words, we have different abilities, so as to do different work..."

So some get to scrub floors and live on a few dollars a day, while others get to eat caviar and drink champagne.

"of course there's no accounting for the psychotic child murderers"

Does God love child murderers as much as he loves everybody else? (If he loves everybody equally?) What about serial killers and rapists?

What about gays - are they loved equally too?

July 15, 2005 5:17 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

truth_is_freedom:
Some get to scrub floors, while others eat caviar and drink champagne, yes...this is reality; get used to it. What's important is where you wind up, not how you got there.

If it helps you any, here's another quote:
Mark 10:25 (NIV)
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

As for child murderers and gays, He hates the sin not the sinner, and we're supposed to do likewise...

Should I start a theological blog for you?

July 15, 2005 6:04 PM  
Blogger truth_is_freedom said...

No thanks, it's the last thing I'd be interested in. And I thought you didn't approve of sarcasm. I thought you considered it rude.

I'm agnostic. And it never ceases to amaze me that you folks can put such faith in a book written thousands of years ago, and think that it's the word of some god. How do you know the Koran is not the word of some god too?

And since you seem to believe in creation, how can you condemn anyone who has been created by god to be gay? Some are born black, some brown, some white, some female, some male, some with blue eyes and some with brown. Gays are born, not made. And your utter conviction that you alone have access to the truth about "God" never ceases to amaze me.

Religion has played a major role in many conflicts and horrors in this world -- from the Crusades to the Inquisition, to the Vatican refusing to allow condoms to be promoted in Africa to stop the spread of AIDS.

Without religion, this world would be a better place by far. Religion and god are creations of man -- invented to deal with man's fear of death.

July 17, 2005 8:14 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

truth_is_freedom:
Regarding sarcasm, I simply said that yours didn't impress me; be as sarcastic as you please, just not offensive. And FYI, I really wasn't being sarcastic about starting a theological blog, it's an idea I've been contemplating.
(OK, asking if I should start one for you may've been a wee tad sarcastic...so sue me)

Agnostic? Implies room for doubt. Good, there's hope for you yet.

As for God creating gay people, I don't believe it. They aren't born that way, they choose the "alternative" lifestyle. Many due to being abused as children, for which they can hardly be condemned.

Oh, and religion has not played a major role in many conflicts and horrors in this world; rather, it has been used as an excuse for those things. Sad, but true, "truth"...

July 17, 2005 8:41 PM  
Blogger truth_is_freedom said...

"As for God creating gay people, I don't believe it. They aren't born that way, they choose the "alternative" lifestyle"

Something to back up that statement please???
Recent research in your own country indicated that gay-ness is dictated by genes.

"Oh, and religion has not played a major role in many conflicts and horrors in this world; rather, it has been used as an excuse for those things"

Examples???

July 18, 2005 7:42 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

truth_is_freedom:
Back up your own assertions; that "gay gene" theory is just that...a theory, one with which I don't agree. More like wishful thinking by people with an agenda.

OK, an example of religion being used as an excuse for conflict:
Northern Ireland. It ain't about Catholic vs. Protestant, it's about British sympathizers vs. their antagonists...

July 18, 2005 8:22 AM  
Blogger truth_is_freedom said...

Of course it's not about Catholics v. Protestants in Northern Ireland. It's a byproduct of the artificial partition of the island that nationalists who wish to rejoin the south are mostly Catholic, and Unionists who want to remain part of the UK are mostly Protestant.

Would you like to explain the Crusades and the Inquisition??

And I take it that

"They aren't born that way, they choose the 'alternative' lifestyle"


is just your opinion then?
You have absolutely no grounds to back that up?

July 18, 2005 9:55 AM  
Blogger camojack said...

truth_is_freedom:
I'll say it again; back up your own assertions regarding the mythical "gay gene", otherwise it's also just an opinion.

Regarding religion being used as an excuse for conflict, I gave you an example (as requested), with which you apparently agree. FYI, the Crusades were actually a defensive action for the most part; the Inquisition, on the other hand, was yet another case where religion was used as an excuse to persecute people.

Are you sure you're not interested in a theological blog? Because I certainly don't see this non sequitur as having anything to do with labor unions blindly following the Democrat Party...which was the point of the original post.

July 18, 2005 5:04 PM  
Blogger truth_is_freedom said...

"Because I certainly don't see this non sequitur as having anything to do with labor unions blindly following the Democrat Party...which was the point of the original post."

Oh. I see. But I was responding to something posted by 'da bunny, viz,

"All are created equal by God, but He didn't create us all to BE equal, or to have an equal amount of talents, gifts, possessions, etc. If God had been of a 'socialist' mindset, then we'd all be concert pianists, rocket scientists, Olympic gymnasts, and no one would be sick or doing without."

I take it I can't "play by the same rules" as everyone else. But that's what I'd expect from you, Camo.

And since you say,

"... otherwise it's also just an opinion"

I take it that you agree that you have nothing but your own opinion to go on.

[And I don't need any "FYI", thanks. I'm well versed in this stuff. I was reared on it.]

July 18, 2005 6:30 PM  
Blogger camojack said...

truth_is_freedom said:
I was responding to something posted by 'da bunny...I take it I can't "play by the same rules" as everyone else."


Understood. You can play by the same rules; quit trying to act the part of the martyr. I was just trying to get the discussion back on track...after responding to your points, I might add.

But that's what I'd expect from you, Camo.

Adversarial condescension does nothing to enhance intelligent discourse. Why all the (misdirected) anger?

And since you say, "... otherwise it's also just an opinion" I take it that you agree that you have nothing but your own opinion to go on.

I agree to nothing of the sort, but (for the third time, now) back up your own assertions. Unless and until you do, I feel no need to counter your opinion with anything besides my own.

I don't need any "FYI", thanks. I'm well versed in this stuff. I was reared on it.

Then don't be deliberately disingenuous, asking for examples of which you are already aware...

July 18, 2005 7:43 PM  

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